[Technical Discussion] analysis and discussion dialogue on the basis of science

The scientific discussion involves the dialogue and discussion on the basis of science, especially the phenomena of special Consciousness in mathematics, philosophy, physics, chemistry and biology.
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Sender: hellowkq (click it! Click it! Click it !), Email: thinker
Question: to discuss a question, if we want to summarize the current human knowledge, which T
Mailing station: shuimu community (Thu Aug 26 19:26:24 2010), within the station

What is the most important?

※Source: · Shui Mu community newsmth.net · [from: 123.120.122. *]

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Sender: qingrun (qingrun), email area: thinker
Mailing station: shuimu community (Thu Aug 26 20:32:06 2010), within the station

So, do you have to deal with 2012?
[Click "hellowkq! Click it! Click it !) As mentioned in the masterpiece :]
: Which knowledge is the most important?

※Source: · Shui Mu community http://newsmth.net · [from: 162.105.200.56]

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Sender: hellowkq (click it! Click it! Click it !), Email: thinker
Mailing station: shuimu community (Thu Aug 26 20:44:49 2010), within the station

I am thinking that we should have some knowledge. By studying this knowledge, we can derive other knowledge.
Important?

[Mentioned in the masterpiece of qingrun :]
: Well, do you have to deal with 2012?

※Source: · Shui Mu community newsmth.net · [from: 123.120.122. *]

4
Sender: leeppp (lll), email area: thinker
Mailing station: shuimu community (Thu Aug 26 22:15:05 2010), within the station

After such a long history of human development, no knowledge can be derived directly from previous books, even the most abstract discipline.

[Click "hellowkq! Click it! Click it !) As mentioned in the masterpiece :]
: I am thinking that we should have some knowledge. Through learning this knowledge, we can derive other knowledge.
: Is it important?

※Source: · Shui Mu community newsmth.net · [from: 123.114.46.167]

5
Sender: qingrun (qingrun), email area: thinker
Mailing station: shuimu community (Thu Aug 26 22:16:52 2010), within the station

This knowledge seems to have only two conformances: practical knowledge and philosophy.
I don't agree to come up, or I want to add it.
[Click "hellowkq! Click it! Click it !) As mentioned in the masterpiece :]
: I am thinking that we should have some knowledge. Through learning this knowledge, we can derive other knowledge.
: Is it important?

※Source: · Shui Mu community http://newsmth.net · [from: 162.105.200.56]

6
Sender: leeppp (lll), email area: thinker
Mailing station: shuimu community (Thu Aug 26 23:05:03 2010), within the station

If you only select two, it means you do not agree, and there is no limit on LZ.

[Mentioned in the masterpiece of qingrun :]
: This knowledge seems to have only two conformances: practical knowledge and philosophy.
: Do not agree to come up or add, huh, huh.

※Source: · Shui Mu community newsmth.net · [from: 123.114.46.167]

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Sender: qingrun (qingrun), email area: thinker
Mailing station: shuimu community (Thu Aug 26 23:08:55 2010), within the station

Haha, there is no limit on LZ. This is my current understanding and understanding level. So I didn't say that only these two are there. Are you welcome to add or criticize it.
[Mentioned in leeppp (lll :]
: If you only select two, it means you do not agree. LZ is not limited.

※Source: · Shui Mu community http://newsmth.net · [from: 162.105.200.56]

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Sender: leeppp (lll), email area: thinker
Mailing station: shuimu community (Thu Aug 26 23:12:01 2010), within the station

Then I criticize you for your low level of understanding and understanding, haha.
There is almost no problem with philosophy. The early philosophy gave birth to what kind of knowledge, and included some basic things on which humans continued.
Maybe you should not ask those subjects which are the most important, but those theories.
For example, biology is not necessarily the most important thing, but the evolution theory cannot be abandoned.

[Mentioned in the masterpiece of qingrun :]
: Haha, there is no limit on LZ. This is my current understanding and understanding level. So I didn't say that only these two are there. Are you welcome to add or criticize them.

※Source: · Shui Mu community newsmth.net · [from: 123.114.46.167]

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Sender: qingrun (qingrun), email area: thinker
Mailing station: shuimu community (Thu Aug 26 23:16:37 2010), within the station

[Mentioned in leeppp (lll :]
: Then I criticize you for your low level of understanding and understanding. Haha
Haha, no problem.
: There is probably no problem with philosophy. The early philosophy gave birth to what kind of knowledge, and the philosophy contains some basic things on which humanity depends.
: Maybe you should not ask those subjects which are the most important, but those theories.
For example, biology is not necessarily the most important thing, but the evolution theory cannot be abandoned.
In fact, there are several basic disciplines that cannot distinguish who is more important. Mathematics doesn't mean that any discipline cannot be called science when it leaves mathematics-forget who said it, and Einstein is still who it is.
However, the development and depth of mathematics are the results of the continuous development of other disciplines. A single mathematics cannot continue to develop.
Most of the other disciplines are related to practice, and they cannot be listed separately. The problem arises, and they cannot be specific. So I have to say practice. Haha.

※Source: · Shui Mu community http://newsmth.net · [from: 162.105.200.56]

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Sender: qingrun (qingrun), email area: thinker
Mailing station: shuimu community (Thu Aug 26 23:18:11 2010), within the station

[Mentioned in leeppp (lll :]
: Then I criticize you for your low level of understanding and understanding. Haha
: There is probably no problem with philosophy. The early philosophy gave birth to what kind of knowledge, and the philosophy contains some basic things on which humanity depends.
: Maybe you should not ask those subjects which are the most important, but those theories.
For example, biology is not necessarily the most important thing, but the evolution theory cannot be abandoned.
Speaking of biology, I think there should be a deeper level of mathematical problems not found in biology. For example, the basic principles and formulas of cell division may be found in the future, the formula for cell growth and element fusion absorption should also exist-I don't know if any of them have been found, but I am not concerned about this.

※Source: · Shui Mu community http://newsmth.net · [from: 162.105.200.56]

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Sender: leeppp (lll), email area: thinker
Mailing station: shuimu community (Thu Aug 26 23:23:41 2010), within the station

This is a good description. Different disciplines are actually interrelated and it is difficult to separate them.
However, we have to discard some of them, and there are others.

[Mentioned in the masterpiece of qingrun :]
: Haha, no problem.
: In fact, there are several basic disciplines that cannot distinguish who is more important. Mathematics doesn't mean that any discipline cannot be called science if it leaves mathematics-forget who said it, and Einstein is still who.
: However, the development and depth of mathematics are the results of the continuous development of other disciplines. A single mathematics cannot continue to develop.
:...................

※Source: · Shui Mu community newsmth.net · [from: 123.114.46.167]

12
Sender: qingrun (qingrun), email area: thinker
Mailing station: shuimu community (Thu Aug 26 23:30:40 2010), within the station

A few days ago, I raised a topic in the CAS edition, so no one cares, saying:
After the founding of the People's Republic of China, all research efforts were made by national cooperation, rather than the current mountain.
Now, a research institute can come up with more than a dozen hills to talk about the achievements.
Each of them snatched more money and wanted more. If they couldn't, they complained everywhere.
If you are steadfast in your work, you often have no energy or mood to grab money, so you have to silence or leave.

Currently, there is little cooperation between different disciplines. Competition between the same discipline is fierce, and competition between different disciplines is required. In fact, competition does not necessarily produce benefits, at a certain level, the competition is rational and effective, but in many aspects, the competition is wasted and meaningless. Unfortunately, there are fewer people who know this truth, and fewer people who can apply it well.
[Mentioned in leeppp (lll :]
: Well, it's hard to separate different disciplines from each other.
: But now we have to discard some of them, and there are others.

※Source: · Shui Mu community http://newsmth.net · [from: 162.105.200.56]

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Sender: leeppp (lll), email area: thinker
Mailing station: shuimu community (Thu Aug 26 23:32:43 2010), within the station

I don't quite agree with this. In my opinion, biology and chemistry are not basically unknown. They are just complicated because they belong to middle-level disciplines. Unlike physics, physics is the underlying discipline, and its knowledge volume is endless. Raw
Although there are still many questions with no answers, I think these questions are no longer the basic principle of the problem, but the problem of the complex system itself. I think the characteristic of a complex system is that it is complex without a simple mathematical
Rule. Only a few quantitative rules can be obtained from statistics.

[Mentioned in the masterpiece of qingrun :]
: Speaking of biology, I think there should be more in-depth mathematical problems not found in biology. For example, the basic principles and calculation formulas of cell division may be found in the future, the formula for cell growth and element fusion absorption should also exist-I don't know if any of them have been found, but I am not concerned about this.

※Source: · Shui Mu community newsmth.net · [from: 123.114.46.167]

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Sender: leeppp (lll), email area: thinker
Mailing station: shuimu community (Thu Aug 26 23:37:06 2010), within the station

The problem is that we compete for money instead of making better results. This is against the intention of competition.
I think the research funding should be divided into two parts. First, we should give some start-up funds. If we do well, we will reward the remaining part as a reward. If we do not do well, we will not be rewarded.

[Mentioned in the masterpiece of qingrun :]
: A few days ago, I raised a topic in the CAS edition, so nobody cares, saying:
: After the founding of the People's Republic of China, all research efforts were made through national cooperation, rather than the current mountain.
: Now, a research institute can come up with more than a dozen hills to talk about the results.
:...................

※Source: · Shui Mu community newsmth.net · [from: 123.114.46.167]

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Sender: qingrun (qingrun), email area: thinker
Mailing station: shuimu community (Thu Aug 26 23:48:00 2010), within the station

The key is good and bad. Who will test it? Now there are also tests. Unfortunately, they all test each other and there is no actual effect.
[Mentioned in leeppp (lll :]
: The problem is that we compete for money instead of making better results. This is against the intention of competition.
: I think the research funding should be divided into two parts. First, we should start a part of the funds. If we do well, we will reward the remaining part. If we do not do well, we will not be rewarded.

※Source: · Shui Mu community http://newsmth.net · [from: 162.105.200.56]

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Sender: qingrun (qingrun), email area: thinker
Mailing station: shuimu community (Thu Aug 26 23:52:23 2010), within the station

I always think that chemistry is connected to physics at the basic level, and biology should be the same, but the basic mechanism is not found. Maybe my understanding is wrong, but the answer has not yet been uncovered.
Especially the emergence of neural reactions and consciousness, this magical thing is really weird. Every time I see some documents in this regard, I feel very strange.
Complex systems only do not have simple and definite mathematical rules. Even the statistical laws of probability are digital rules, which are not completely unpredictable, or there are some basic scientific undiscovered principles at the grassroots level, also
Maybe it's not a question of 1,-1, or the basic unit is a specific irrational number, or if our mathematical foundation is not based on constants but another form of variable, this formula may be fixed.
Form or value.
This problem is too complicated. I have never had the opportunity to study it in depth in my life. I have to wait for the results of others' studies.
[Mentioned in leeppp (lll :]
:
I don't quite agree with this. In my opinion, biology and chemistry are not basically unknown. They are just complicated because they belong to middle-level disciplines. Unlike physics, physics is the underlying discipline, and its knowledge volume is endless. Raw
Although there are still many questions with no answers, I think these questions are no longer the basic principle of the problem, but the problem of the complex system itself. I think the characteristic of a complex system is that it is complex without a simple mathematical
Rule. Only a few quantitative rules can be obtained from statistics.

※Source: · Shui Mu community http://newsmth.net · [from: 162.105.200.56]

17
Sender: leeppp (lll), email area: thinker
Mailing site: shuimu community (Fri Aug 27 11:57:06 2010), within the site

The foundation of biology is chemistry, the foundation of chemistry is physics, and physics is the most basic thing.
So what you call the biological basic mechanism is the chemical or physical mechanism. Is there a problem with this understanding?

[Mentioned in the masterpiece of qingrun :]
: I always think that chemistry is connected to physics at the basic level, and biology should be the same, but the basic mechanism is not found. Maybe my understanding is wrong, but the answer has not yet been uncovered.
: Especially the emergence of neural reactions and consciousness, this magical thing is really weird. Every time I see some documents in this area, I feel very strange.
:
Complex systems only do not have simple and definite mathematical rules. Even the statistical laws of probability are digital rules, which are not completely unpredictable, or there are some basic scientific undiscovered principles at the grassroots level, also
Maybe it's not the question of 1,-1, or the basic unit is a specific irrational number, or if our mathematical foundation is not based on constants but another change?
:...................

※Source: · Shui Mu community newsmth.net · [from: 123.114.45.68]

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Sender: qingrun (qingrun), email area: thinker
Mailing site: shuimu community (Fri Aug 27 12:11:16 2010), within the site

I personally think that the foundation of biology is chemistry. However, there must be something beyond chemistry. It should also be another foundation of biology. It should be the cause of consciousness. This is really hard to say. Haha.
[Mentioned in leeppp (lll :]
Chemistry is the foundation of biology, physics is the foundation of chemistry, and physics is the most basic thing.
: So what you call the biological basic mechanism is the chemical or physical mechanism. Is there a problem with this understanding?

※Source: · waterwood community http://newsmth.net · [from: 162.105.200.132]

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Sender: leeppp (lll), email area: thinker
Mailing site: shuimu community (Fri Aug 27 12:35:29 2010), within the site

I personally think that biological phenomena are a kind of self-organizing phenomenon in a complex system. The basic principle is the chemical principle, and the more basic principle is the physical principle. The difference between it and chemical, physical, and general complex systems is self-organizing. Another basis you mentioned is probably the internal law of this self-organizing phenomenon. It can only be mathematics.
[Mentioned in the masterpiece of qingrun :]
: Personally, the foundation of biology is chemistry. However, there must be something beyond chemistry. It should also be another foundation of biology. It should be the cause of consciousness. This is really hard to say. Haha.

※Source: · Shui Mu community newsmth.net · [from: 123.114.45.68]

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Sender: qingrun (qingrun), email area: thinker
Mailing site: shuimu community (Fri Aug 27 13:17:01 2010), within the site

This principle is very mysterious at present. Should there be no literature or research to explain it? Haha.
If anyone knows about the message, let us know.
[Mentioned in leeppp (lll :]
: I personally think that biological phenomena are a kind of self-organizing phenomenon in a complex system. The basic principle is the chemical principle, and the more basic principle is the physical principle. The difference between it and chemical, physical, and general complex systems is self-organizing. Another basis you mentioned is probably the internal law of this self-organizing phenomenon. It can only be mathematics.

※Source: · waterwood community http://newsmth.net · [from: 162.105.200.132]

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Sender: leeppp (lll), email area: thinker
Mailing site: shuimu community (Fri Aug 27 13:40:09 2010), within the site

Not only in biology, but in most modern science, the same problem is the self-organization of complex systems.
In the past, people studied complex systems only rely on statistics, but the statistics erased too much information and could not draw meaningful conclusions on a single event. At the same time, it is found that many phenomena in a complex system cannot be interpreted from a statistical point of view. However, it is precisely this phenomenon that is difficult to find statistical methods that is the key to understanding most non-linear phenomena.
If there is a breakthrough in this area, it will be the great revolution of the academic community, which has no less influence than the Physics Revolution in the early 20th century.

[Mentioned in the masterpiece of qingrun :]
: This principle is very mysterious at present. Should there be no literature or research to explain it? Haha.
: If anyone knows about this message, please let us know.

※Source: · Shui Mu community newsmth.net · [from: 123.114.45.68]

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Sender: qingrun (qingrun), email area: thinker
Mailing site: shuimu community (Fri Aug 27 13:54:30 2010), within the site

Yes, maybe there may be a major change in the mathematical expression method before we can describe such phenomena. The current mathematical description of some phenomena is always somewhat biased and not so accurate, however, no one knows where to develop Ms.
Physics is still in a situation where it cannot be tested and described. more progress is required. What is lacking now is experimental verification methods, rather than theoretical deduction to a certain extent.
Look forward to it.
[Mentioned in leeppp (lll :]
: Not only in biology, but in most modern science, the same problem is the self-organization of complex systems.
: In the past, people studied complex systems only rely on statistics, but the statistics erased too much information and could not draw meaningful conclusions on a single event. At the same time, it is found that many phenomena in a complex system cannot be interpreted from a statistical point of view. However, it is precisely this phenomenon that is difficult to find statistical methods that is the key to understanding most non-linear phenomena.
: If there is a breakthrough in this area, it will be the great revolution of the academic community, which has no less influence than the Physics Revolution in the early 20th century.

※Source: · waterwood community http://newsmth.net · [from: 162.105.200.132]

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Sender: leeppp (lll), email area: thinker
Mailing site: shuimu community (Fri Aug 27 14:00:27 2010), within the site

The deviation is normal, but now it is completely helpless...

[Mentioned in the masterpiece of qingrun :]
: Yes. Maybe there may be a major change in the mathematical expression before we can describe such phenomena. The current mathematical description of some phenomena is always somewhat biased, not so accurate. However, Ms does not know where to develop.
: Physics is still in a situation where it cannot be tested and described. more progress is required. What is lacking now is experimental verification methods, rather than theoretical deduction to a certain extent.
: Look forward to it.
:...................

※Source: · Shui Mu community newsmth.net · [from: 123.114.45.68]

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Sender: qingrun (qingrun), email area: thinker
Mailing site: shuimu community (Fri Aug 27 16:19:07 2010), within the site

Therefore, it is the bottleneck. Only such suppression can lead to the greatest opportunity. However, it is hard to say who finally gets this opportunity.
When everything went smoothly, there was a Nobel Prize winner, but there was no such thing as Newton or Einstein.

[Mentioned in leeppp (lll :]
: The deviation is normal, but now it is completely helpless...

※Source: · waterwood community http://newsmth.net · [from: 162.105.200.132]

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Sender: leeppp (lll), email area: thinker
Mailing site: shuimu community (Fri Aug 27 20:49:43 2010), within the site

Now we are in the age of people, and there will be no more gods.

[Mentioned in the masterpiece of qingrun :]
: So it is the bottleneck. Only such suppression can lead to the greatest opportunity. However, it is hard to say who gets this opportunity.
: When everything goes smoothly, there will be Nobel Prize winners, but not Newton and Einstein.

※Source: · Shui Mu community newsmth.net · [from: 123.114.45.68]

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Sender: leeppp (pray, for nothing), email area: thinker
Mailing station: shuimu community (Sat Aug 28 23:04:40 2010), within the station

[Mentioned in the masterpiece of qingrun :]
: Haha, no problem.
: In fact, there are several basic disciplines that cannot distinguish who is more important. Mathematics doesn't mean that any discipline cannot be called science if it leaves mathematics-forget who said it, and Einstein is still who.
~~~~~~~~~ It's what Marx says.
: However, the development and depth of mathematics are the results of the continuous development of other disciplines. A single mathematics cannot continue to develop.
:...................