Mobile Internet: Where are the opportunities for subversion?

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November 26, the 2013 Venture capital conference opens at the Millennium Hotel in Beijing. The theme of this annual meeting is "subversion", the entrepreneur and the investment community representatives took turns, reviewing the 2013 year of the Big Circle event, exploring the 2014 innovation model and new business pattern. In "Mobile Internet: Where are the opportunities for subversion?" In the special discussion, entrepreneurs and investors from internet finance, smart home and other industries began to reflect on the polarization of the two-year mobile internet wave, and shared how to use mobile apps, O2O, etc. to open up new markets and new entrepreneurial opportunities.

Special Chair:

Dai vice president of capital investment

Special Guests:

Trading Treasure Senior Vice President Chen Zhenyuan

Broadlink CEO Liu Zongru

Limei Technology CEO Shuyi

Wang Vice president of Qiming Venture

Yi Xiang Wine Business Operation Manager Zhang

The following is a live transcript:

Mobile interconnection This wave, is the Pacific or Huangpu River? Has there been a polarization of the phenomenon?

Dai: The first question, first of all, to reflect on the mobile interconnection of this wave, in fact, this wave is in 2011, the 2011 when our internal mobile interconnection, the first question is whether this is a Pacific or Huangpu River, if the Pacific, the opportunity is everywhere, If it's the Huangpu River, the opportunity is very limited, we are still thinking, we see the 2011 to 2012 when this tide, including entrepreneurs and investors have done a lot of companies, there are also made a lot of investment, but two years down, the first question asked guests to talk about their own ideas, When the first wave of waves, in the present state of the people is there a polarization phenomenon?

Shuyi: I think so, actually, in the past, in the beginning to do mobile advertising, then want to move will do a little bit more, you use mobile phones will be more dispersed, in fact, the app is a little more scattered, because the number of apps is a lot of, but you know the PC area of the alliance to do sentry duty, in fact, a lot of money Pictures, he has a mature advertising model, you can quickly change his cash, whether it is advertising, or electric dealers, including medical institutions, hospitals, he many of these sites can survive. But what is the problem now? First mobile advertising development is still relatively early, your entire advertising market is very small, the internet has 80 billion or 90 billion of the market.

The second question, each should be profitable, in fact, the main is the electric business game, you want an app by advertising as a profit model, he ad very little, and then the advertising unit price is very little, two cents, and then rely on advertising to make money, most of the media rely on advertising to make money, not In fact, we've been developing for two years, and we've found that we have a constant profit, which is the media of the game. He has the ability to make money quickly.

Dai: Shuyi's point of view is, now to the mobile phone to lead to advertising important profit model is no longer effective, so it is difficult to burn money, there is no way to money, leading to such a state.

Shuyi: Yes, we from the point of view of making money, now the most mature mobile Internet model is definitely a game, whether it is brand advertising, in fact, like our company brand advertising revenue quite a lot, but we allocate each app above the revenue is very small, but the amount of game is very large, we are soaring. In the game I was in Chengdu the day before yesterday to participate in the game forum, the game 8 billion, the year 18 billion, we through the application store to advertise, like this year the entire game advertising market is at least 2 billion of the share, we believe that next year can be 3 times times, so many companies to vote game ads, will automatically be assigned to the app, It will continue to rise next year.

Dai: Another mention of a problem, now in fact, the distribution channels are limited by the platform, and then I ask Zhi Wei, for you to talk about this market?

Zhang: The problem we see is that the first, homogeneous products are more, leading to some lack of innovation. Second, it is precisely because of homogenization, resulting in the final generation of a user stickiness. For Yi Xiang, our view is very simple, is to do what we are good at, because Yi Xiang itself has wine, we know the best wine, we hit their biggest demand point, how to let them buy a good wine, cut into the user's demand point, in any design section to listen to the user's suggestions, Because there are many wine merchants working with Yi Xiang, let the wine dealer to provide users with the best price, so in fact, C and B is through, although we this app is not very popular, but in the segmentation of the field and market, to meet the needs of users, always bring the most affordable value to the user, I believe it has a very considerable growth cycle.

Dai: The meaning of Chi Wei said, find your core users, to find the core users of the just need, rauschecker today did not come, this is a big aunt do is also very successful, but from this app, mobile Internet is not all app, I just asked Chen Zhenyuan, trading treasure mainly from the mobile phone browser up, We see how the sale of treasure is not through the app to achieve success?

Chen Zhenyuan: I think from a user's point of view, from our company, because our users actually, we have a PC, did not rob the app, to take into account the efficiency, in fact, we stand in the user's convenient angle, enter a URL, direct registration can be a single, so from now on the current app, the development of the time is problematic , in the final analysis, there is flow, if there is no traffic is no good, just Cai Zhiwei said, for his users, but also very focused on the user channel, he could not all the vast number of users to do, so the user's point of view, the enterprise is the most economical, but also the most realistic ideas.

Dai: So Chen Zhenyuan also gives us a very good example of subversion. The second question about subversion, as we all know, want to start a lot of mobile internet, but not a lot of success, the first two days, we did a statistic, a few years ago we voted 200 companies, the real listing also Ctrip, where, the competition is very fierce, at the same time we have three big mountains on the head. The second question, throws to Wang, investor's angle, for the entrepreneur sees an opportunity to want to go in, has three mountains in the middle, the investor angle how regards the entrepreneurial choice opportunity and three mountain competition question, how evade their competition, we so-called winner is the king.

Wang: There are many entrepreneurs here, I heard a saying, entrepreneurs feel the most boring, investors ask the most boring question, if Baidu, if Tencent, or Ali to do this thing how do you do? It's boring because they can't do all the directions, if they have that ability, We do not exist in the VC industry, in fact, I want to say is, the most important concern in any new innovation is the human nature of the user, why there is now moving the entire industrial capital, of course, with hardware, thanks to Apple and Google doing Android, and the second reason is that everyone's way of life has changed, I use it all, get information, Or the way in which information is used, the way things behave and the desires of the heart are changed.

From an app perspective, we've also analyzed that there are actually a few things that can't be replaced by PCs and apps, geographic, and second, sounds, including input sounds and output sounds. The third is the picture, because the smartphone has a very convenient camera film process, so many apps on the camera film process can make some completely subversive PC direction, in the geographical location to see the application of geographical location. Now, of course, the call is over, the second voice, we say the voice of the input method, there are a lot of voice recognition, the future of intelligent control, through the mobile phone can be achieved, the PC is not able to do, the output of sound such as the PA, including singing it, this is because on the phone everyone has a voice demand, And the mobile phone is the natural use of sound to communicate. Our investment in Mushroom Street is a social and picture-oriented project, all you have to do is grab these projects, and the Giants aren't necessarily going to be able to do it everywhere, and it's easy for the giant to knock you down with the money, but it's the kind of thing that an entrepreneur has to learn by the thickness of the product, social networking, and real life. I think it's a chance for the entrepreneur to move.

Challenges are simultaneous, the challenge is to say, I personally to the Pure app company still has a certain wait-and-see attitude, in fact, we saw the big app, we did an analysis, we put the top 50 of the total flow of China, or even to 100, so some of the app put it listed to look, In fact, you'll find that 70% to 80% is an extension of some PC Internet giant products, for example, the micro-letter, 360, such as Baidu's search, Ali's Alipay, especially the top of those, in fact, the giant extension of the possibility of greater, the opportunity of entrepreneurs is very difficult in these relatively large platform-level above to find advantages. In this relatively integrated platform of electrical quotient, search and socializing, these are very difficult to set up on the phone alone to do a big brand, of course, social this has a chance, I still think it and micro-letter is two levels, but the same opportunity where? is on the phone, because everyone's time is fragmented, and the cost of mobile PC development , including the team resources and money he needs, including people's requirements is more than a site, it means that you have more opportunities to catch some smaller points, but the app is OK, perhaps you can rely on the app to accumulate to tens of thousands of of the users, these are profitable companies, of course, this company may not be able to do the listing, There is one more direction for the entrepreneur.

There is also a good place to be with the entire use of smart phones, or the entire Internet population changes, now the main consumer group or basically after 85, even after 90, now this group of young people more their way of life in fact and our previous whenever, or 85 before the way has changed a lot, We have been studying this recently, many times they will be more personality, like things will be more different, so this is actually the entire mobile phone app, to the entrepreneurs to provide a great direction.

What kind of competition or experience

Dai: Wang for us to share a few angles, the first, to find these big guys have no advantage, we are the same starting line. The second to find these big guys do not pay attention to the project to do deep professional. The third, mentioned the need to pay attention to the needs of the three, may be these big guys can not understand now, based on this I asked Shuyi to talk about, mobile network platform big Guy also in, how you are in the very competitive market live very well, give you talk about your experience.

Shuyi: From this point of view, the first advertising in fact, the industry in China has a lot of financing, but no one to go public, in fact, we are also discussing the issue, they have customers and media, in fact, the advertising company living space is relatively small, but on the mobile side we saw several opportunities. The first angle, for example, we now focus on the game in the field to do more, the media a lot of games, basically we see in the case of not brush list, we look at the list of iOS games are ranked in front. The second angle, the core technology of mobile advertising is changing, in the field of PC advertising companies, relative to include a lot of resources, in fact, we are also in the perspective of the platform, such as moving the end of our release of a product, in fact, in the Internet is also doing, for two or three years, the technical threshold itself is very high, This is how you naturally survive. Second, the data tracking is not the same, mobile phone, we now own the company at least 300 million people in China processing, this person uses what kind of app, is a male female, we can guess out, in the PC is not, but in the mobile end is OK, so we will not live in the next few years very good, live should also be.

Dai: I want to ask Broadlink, smart home is also a hot direction, but also see we broadlink also do a good job.

Liu Zongru: I missed the internet era, mobile Internet We are also thinking of the light to do a pure app, I think the opportunity is very small, first, in addition to the game, we make an analogy, micro-letters are now relying on the game to make money, and some other I have not yet figured out what to make money, So we want to be a company that has a profit model in the mobile Internet era from the beginning. So the first to choose it to the mobile phone around the intelligent preparation, intelligent hardware, we do is a series of products called intelligent Life, I believe that after 85 of their smart hardware, smart home appliances will become more and more interested in the product sales and feedback has been verified. What about the Giants coming in? In fact, the giant he could not have done all things, such as we worry is not like 360, Tencent such companies, because they will not do so thin, all aspects of the small things, the last venture state competition I also said, we are most worried about is millet, We are most worried about turning the hardware that might have made us profitable into unprofitable hardware.

We may also have to have some strategy, first of all we are working with some giants, today we can also talk about the strategic investors themselves have these giants, they are also in the hardware layout, in the competition, we believe that their products to the extreme, so that he felt they do not have any meaning, this is a best direction, For example, our cooperation with a home appliance giant is the same way as they do, let him feel that he does not have any meaning, first of all, he does not necessarily than I do cheaper, the second he did not we do well, the price let them to drop a small amount of profits, such as a drop of a little dollar is meaningless, This is one of my directions.

Where is the chance of subversion?

Dai: Just now we discussed these two issues, and then we focused on the opportunities for subversion. First question, I want to ask Chi Wei, we start from the mobile internet to discuss the combination of mobile phone and O2O, think it is a natural combination, we also saw the same year, such as wine is a typical cable under the market, there may be tens of billions of of the market, how do you do this mobile phone O2O?

Zhang: We wanted to do this, in fact, is a subversive idea is to let the market these wine merchants have cooperation with us, what is the purpose? Who can put the transparent price real benefits to the consumer, who can produce the most goods and the largest quantity. Then the converse also said that we are here, because a large part of the online shopping, and wine in fact, we now see, it still belongs to a relatively backward stage, because many people will not go to drink, will not buy, for example, everyone in the supermarket to carry a random one on it, But in fact, more than 100 dollars can buy very good French wine. We use this software, I will describe it as a date kernel type, the top layer is the enthusiast, one months drink four bottles, he will be in the community to do opinion leaders, users guide the role of consumption. In the middle of this part of the wine are interested in the white-collar and some of the public enthusiasts, through the knowledge inside, through the wine merchants to give some of the quality of value, can enjoy better service. Therefore, we think from this perspective, and now in this with our co-operation of the wine business, is basically to follow such an open and transparent attitude to do this thing.

Dai: So when it comes to O2O, simply to line up with the line under the basic necessities, eat and drink to combine, Wang, in addition to cars, and just talked about the drinking, you think there are other offline these opportunities are worth considering and subversion?

Wang: I think most of the offline industry can be internet, I do not like the word subversion, I like to change the word, for example, education is a relatively biased content, can be virtualized in such an industry, the industry can be overturned by the Internet, because he actually completed can do mobile internet, It is an example of a school that does not need an entity and that you can acquire knowledge or get better knowledge without sitting in the classroom.

I take catering as an example, he can not go to subvert the catering industry, and he brought more to the restaurant is the efficiency of the increase and new passenger flow, or the old guest of the same rate, to enhance the efficiency of the industry, can not be defined as subversion, defined as better suited to improve. So from this point of view, I think the concept of O2O should have been raised by the United States three years ago, four years ago, but actually the concept is really hot because of the mobile, because of the smartphone, because of the smartphone, the communication between the user and the merchant becomes more frequent and convenient, And location is very important mobile phone, your sense of distance between business will be eliminated, you can contact the restaurant anytime, anywhere, contact with SAP anytime, you will be more convenient and documentary than PC, so O2O will do it slowly.

In addition O2O Most importantly, I have been looking at users in various industries, including beverages, education, wine, the biggest problem is O2O difficult to do is, now in China, it is difficult to find a potential to understand the industry, but also fully understand the Internet mobile talent, very very scarce, I see the offline people, This old way not, recruit two it engineers to do, or not, because he does not understand. In turn, a group of Tencent, Baidu's high-spirited people to subvert an offline industry, to do the app I found it is also very difficult, they know too little offline, and often many internet entrepreneurs to the offline industry respect is not enough, they think you are a bunch of mister, 60 's, 70 's people, Your business concept all do things have been behind, outdated, I can overturn you, in fact, is not so simple, especially a lot of industry water is very deep, such as I see the car repair industry, in fact, the user's demand is spent a lot of time and energy. Just as we do the Internet to understand why users open this project at this point in time, this thing is going to take time to O2O gestation time is relatively long. The ability to make money is relatively poor, from this point it is not a Tencent or Baidu, so like things, because he paid the cost and return at this stage is disproportionate, actually earn back is very little cost. We see a line of manufacturers, Uniqlo is doing a lot of exploration, such as the flow of his store to the online guide, he is in the store to allow users to install the app, and then let users go to his app, but his users online.

Dai: Wang two points of view, not to be friends and foes, not always to subvert, we together to make this point bigger. And then the fourth question, we want to talk about a more old question, is also a mobile internet to say that the problem, the problem of electricity quotient, the mobile electric business actually has several to do, actually just mentioned the sale and purchase treasure also did well, like the pocket shopping, I check, all is in the mobile electricity trader this platform to do well, This question also chats with Shuyi, because he understands, the mobile electricity trader actually has the opportunity to change this pattern?

Zhang: First of all, I think we buy or sell the treasure because of the customer's demand, we do not believe that it is the electricity business, we think is a retail platform company, just Wang speak very well, in fact, those companies or the traditional line of things also have many worthy of our respect, I used to be spring, but the more down look, The more I feel that the traditional industry, including the retail industry has my worth learning place, so I think we are the retail platform, in fact, the user's demand is the first, so in our opinion, if the user one day changes, they want the PC, we will do the PC.

Shuyi: The more customers we want, the better, you don't want to be two customers, so from the electric business in terms of the industry, we feel the big platform of the electric business, small electric dealers basically did not, like you just said the pocket shopping, I think they are not the electricity quotient, they are also traffic broadcasting companies, they have to buy the flow back to the volume, We do require a broader coverage of more traffic, covering more users, they do more refined, essentially the same.

Dai: Shuyi's point of view is that I do not care about your game to make money, electricity dealers earn money, anyway, who do I do with the money?

Shuyi: This is the market trend, I do not blindly to say I bet which industry, I think we are the largest future mobile development space, the first is online mature business model, the second is the line of mature traditional brand, what McDonald's, KFC they are offline mature mode.

What are some good entrepreneurial ideas outside wearable equipment?

Dai: Next we have two more questions. The first one said, 2013 wear equipment out, I counted the Chinese do watch about 30 to 40, so to the big talk about the direction of the combination of hardware and software, foreign giants are doing. So I asked Liu Zongru first, you think wearable equipment, hardware and software combination, and in which direction there are some good entrepreneurial philosophy?

Liu Zongru: Wearable equipment Actually, we started thinking about a heart rate, health related products, but later found that the most important problem is to solve the battery problem, smart watch has to let it two days to recharge the electricity, but we are with the hardware companies are working together, I feel that this product will not allow you to change batteries for at least one months before we do this product. Most of the current fire products may be smart watches, and hand rings, other wear equipment I haven't seen anything particularly bright at the moment, we're actually doing a watch, not a bracelet, a clip in your chest, a product like a chest clamp, or even a button, Its role is that you go home directly with the voice to control all of your home appliances, it's waiting for a very long time, if not more than one months standby we will not do, this product we have been developing.

Dai: Zongru also gave them a small ad, please Wang talk about, in addition to watches, these more popular, you also pay attention to which direction?

Wang: Actually I recently because this concept is very good, all VC will understand this profession, we also saw a relatively fire new equipment company, I personally more old-fashioned person, I personally to this industry hold a wait-and-see attitude, and other o2o to compare, may be earlier some, now I think the most important thing is to return, I have always been concerned about the point is the user's fundamental needs in the end where? Why to wear a smart watch, not wearing a Swiss watch, and what is the value of it, is not fundamental? I now personally look at these products have not made me feel able to popularize to a very large aspect, I think still in some it enthusiasts, Especially glasses such as products, or a relatively cutting-edge niche products, want to make a breakthrough on the functional mobile phone, I have seen a number of sports-related projects, I think that sports related to the device is closely linked, but in fact, you see Samsung, including Apple is actually in the product implanted into the phone, In fact, mobile phone manufacturers are eyeing the direction of the device, in particular, I believe that companies such as Samsung, in the future as long as there is a direction will be killed, the entrepreneur chose to do the watch, or do glasses, or do other things, in fact, it is necessary to think, you may have to avoid some giants, Those marketing requirements are very high, especially in the past few years, we have seen more and more marketing requirements, perhaps because of millet, or Samsung, have invested a lot of money in marketing, in fact, their own hardware differences become less and less, in fact, in marketing, perhaps in the future with the improvement of mobile phone hardware, Will come out in a new direction, but these things are not particularly interesting to me personally.

Where is the mobile Internet opportunity that is closer to the money?

Dai: In fact, just now Wang about the choice of market segments, I have a point of view, one, you must choose a very strong consumption capacity. Second, you have a strong technical barriers in this field, rather than simple hardware and internet marketing concept, and in fact, in addition to sports, many people also do blood sugar, blood pressure, many companies can do hundreds of thousands of of the scale, so this direction is worth exploring a direction. The last very simple question, just now we talked about a variety of direction mode opportunities, we have repeatedly mentioned that a game is very lucrative, this is a well-known fact, I would like to ask guests to answer, in addition to the game, you think the next or more near the mobile internet to earn money in where? Everyone a word. Does it start with Chi Wei?

Zhang: This is actually the best of times and the worst of times, opportunities are many, opportunities are many, but the challenge is also very big, in addition to the game, in fact, I can not say more optimistic which one, I think mobile internet is a healthy ecological model, I will be more optimistic about the synthesis, such as micro-letter such, Maybe a need to solve all the social news interactions, so I'm going to be more optimistic about the area.

Wang: Personally, I think there are two directions that we should pay attention to. One is a level two social platform, such as the Mo, of course, there are other, these platforms because the user stay long enough, he will be able to become more powerful, so the number may not be compared to micro-letter, but still have the opportunity to become a good big company. Another direction, I think or micro Bo, the user is with the heart of the consumption to open the app, so the proportion of conversion is very high, and relatively easy to make money, in fact, it is the real customer is not only the user, is the merchant, and it is difficult to reach the Giants.

Shuyi: I think in addition to the game, advertising can make money, advertising platform and advertising companies can make money, because advertising is a relatively large business model, but to rely on advertising to make a lot of money, the opportunity is less, because the amount of mobile phone is still relatively small. Second, I agree with Wang's O2O.

Liu Zongru: I think so, with the mobile phone is closely related to the intelligent hardware is sure to explode, has erupted in foreign countries, the current momentum has been blocked, this must be a chance to make money.

Chen Zhenyuan: From the electric quotient point of view, now the first real estate business model, such as Taobao model basically will be more difficult. The second is the app model, now to take root in a market, I think there should be no opportunity, you should cover all one or two lines of the market, it is also possible to do. Third, you can be a brand manufacturer, may be small to do or have a chance, but it takes time, but if you stick to it will make money.

Dai: Finally, I'd like to end our special session, when I was chatting in Silicon Valley last month, I said, "What are you looking at on the mobile internet?" He said I don't look at anything, I listen to the entrepreneur's heart, he will tell me where to go, give all the entrepreneurs, thank you.