Serial | Wonderful speeches on the Internet (ii)

Terry Kuok:
"People" and "republic" are Japanese = = In the People's Republic of China.

LEEMZ2002:
Japanese "People", "republic" and other words are from the Chinese classical, not the Japanese original new words.
"People" from the "historical records of goods biographies"
"Republic" from "Shiji Week Chronicles"
A similar example would be:
"Economy" from "Jin book"
"Culture" from "the Garden of the finger"
"Politics" from "The Book of Billing"
"Physics" from "Huainan Hong Lei-ming training"

Terry Kuok:
But it was translated by the Japanese and returned to China for use by Chinese students.

LEEMZ2002:
In Japan these words are called Chinese. It can only be counted as the export of imported words.
Before the Meiji Restoration in Japan, history, law and administration all used Chinese. Intellectuals generally accepted the classical education of Chinese. When translating Western books, it is also logical to use the ready-made words of Chinese classics.
The translation of the last generation of intellectuals in Japan, after the Chinese classical education, is widely used in katakana. Because without the foundation of Chinese, it is impossible to find the proper Chinese vocabulary.

Terry Kuok:
That's right.
The people, the Republic for the Chinese words, for the Japanese people to use the translation of Western nouns, and then because the Japanese study of Chinese people back to China.
That's right, you're right.

PHARAOHSXH:
Although these words are our own, spread to Japan. But now most of the meaning is really Japanese translation from the West. Jokingly said: I accommodating celestial, I photographed the artifacts of the barbarian, do not damage the flame of China. Ha ha

LEEMZ2002:
In the past, the Japanese translated Western writings to find so many Chinese words because intellectuals at that time had deep Chinese skills. This generation of intellectuals has died almost, and the new words in Japanese translation of Western writings have almost all been transliterated in katakana.
And many words don't turn out well in Japanese. For example, in the jargon of physics, the Chinese "diffraction" is better than the Japanese "interference", "damping", "resistance" is better than the Japanese "resistance". And there are many "strong" and "force" in the Japanese physical vocabulary. For example, "pressure" in Chinese and "pressure" in Japanese are expressed in "stress". There are many similar examples in the field of mathematics.
In general, Japanese is less accurate than Chinese in terms of professional vocabulary. In the day, many places have to add their own understanding. In the middle of the day, often need more than a lot of ink to maintain the accuracy of the original text.

PHARAOHSXH:
Thank you for your advice. Personally, the translation of Chinese scientific research vocabulary may be worse now. The example I encountered was "robustness", the common translation is robustness, and derived words such as "robust control". The personal feeling of fitness is more appropriate. Direct turn "robust" is a Japanese katakana transliteration of the taste. Want to come or before Xu Guangqi, such as the geometry of the original words is really a letter Tatsu ya

LEEMZ2002:
Now the Japanese translation of the new words is almost entirely transliteration. Some young translators even translate all the words that can't be flipped. The daughter of one of my parents ' friends put a lot of French words in katakana, and the elder ridiculed her translation as a new religion. Japan has many new religious groups out of the book is this, the western translation of some things, or Buddhism and other religions, some of the teachings of the western version of the language to turn back, full text is katakana, let people indefinitely. And China's "Changkai", "Mencius" have a spell.
It is difficult to create new words without the foundation of ancient prose. Especially when translating Western sinology works, it is easy to turn out the jokes of Chinese food.

Angie Wu:
is the formation of Shariputra related to the method of cremation???????

LEEMZ2002:
It may have a greater relationship with the buried product.
Among the relics I have seen, the more beautiful ones look like the dead swallow or carry something. I do not understand how the human body can burn out such a result. It's obviously something like a silicate containing metal oxides. The body which comes from this ingredient ah. There's no nuclear reaction at the temperature of cremation. The sintering of calcium, carbon and other components of silicon is probably not the average cremation furnace that hundreds of degrees can do (conservatively estimated to require billions of degrees).
Once, I attended a friend's elder's cremation ceremony, burned the false tooth relic and the nail knife relic, I realized suddenly. The original Shariputra can be so refined.
So if you want to burn the relic after death, the simplest way is to swallow a colored sand or stone or something like that before dying. But this kind of thing is probably needed for a long time to accumulate. For example, from a young age, pay attention to the collection of something that looks more like a relic, with the body. Swallow when life is in danger.

Yuanrodger:
I think this is a bit misleading. Often said "language out" or "from" this argument, is to speak etymology. Etymology should be able to explain the meaning of the word, for example, to explain the allusions in ancient poetry. However, you say these words are modern Chinese, the connotation is almost entirely from the Western culture, with the meaning of the ancient classics interpretation is quite inappropriate. As to whether the Japanese originality does not know. In addition, the ancient Chinese is more monosyllabic words, one word and one meaning, and the modern Chinese habit is completely different. Therefore, this explanation of yours is far-fetched.

yuanrodger:
Direct transliteration may not be a good thing, because it is more accurate. For the name of the object, this to simple, see this thing know, pandas or panda completely indifferent, but for thought, itself has a lot of connotation, if directly with another kind of culture without such concept of language translation, often appear as some people said the so-called etymology to explain, easy to misunderstand, rather than direct transliteration, And then spend a certain amount of space to explain. This is not a good thing. Of course, the violin translated into Van Ada Ling is a bit of a rip, although the word there is no standard translation, Roar

leemz2002:
I just said that these words were originally in ancient Chinese, and were later given a new meaning by Japanese scholars to interpret the concepts from the West. The meaning of these words is very close to the meaning of the first generation. At most, it's just a little different from the level or category.

For example, the word "economy", the source of economy in English from the Greek o ikonomia or Oeconomicus , the two words in Greek mean home economics or the way the community manages. And the meaning of "statecraft" in ancient Chinese is very close.

LEEMZ2002:
If it is the use of phonography people, can only literal translation, no so-called good or bad. But the Han nationality is a people who use the literal text, literal translation is basically equal to no translation. If the economy turns into a "love buckle," the culture translates into "the same as", the politics turns into "the quite reason to mention the guest", the physics turns into "The Phillips". Not good to hear first. How tired it is to read. The Chinese habit of paraphrase is probably because two words are easier to read and easy to remember. In western languages, there are few professional terms that are just double-syllable. The two-syllable words in the Western language are mostly nouns and verbs commonly used in daily life. Such words often have ready-made words available in Chinese.
Moreover, ancient Chinese is extensive and profound, it is not difficult to find an appropriate meaning word. This is a lot of small ethnic languages can not be compared. After all, the Han has accounted for more than one-third of the world's population for most of its history, and the scale of economic activity is more than half the world's. So there is a voluminous article of the classics is not strange.
The misunderstanding you are talking about is mainly referring to the example of the literal meaning to understand. Chinese words are understood by literal means, roughly sorta. If it's a Japanese or Malay loan, you don't even guess.

Yuanrodger:
Thanks for your reply. Apart from some unimportant misunderstanding, there seems to be no conflict of opinion, hehe.

sbian0216:
These words exist in Chinese, but it is the Japanese who actually translate the corresponding Western words into Chinese. The word physics was quoted in the Chinese translation of the Physics of Japan, and the first physics was translated into Gezhi in China. Similar words include finance, clinic, police station and so on.

LEEMZ2002:
I pointed out that these words came from ancient Chinese just to refute what Mr. Yuan said about the words "the Chinese cannot speak in Japanese".
If there were no Chinese, the Japanese would not be able to speak, nor would there be so much export-bought words appearing in modern Chinese.
Japanese postwar translation of foreign concepts generally use katakana transliteration, because the older generation of Chinese-trained translators are almost dead.
Today's young translators do not speak Chinese, even Japanese have not learned. A friend of mine likes to put the words of French into a place where they are spelled out in katakana. Her parents said that her translation was "The Scriptures of New Religions" and "semi-finished".
Similar phenomena in modern Japanese are very common. Many of the only subtle foreign words are circulating in various publications on the market, as a result of such "parallel input" (The Japanese "input" is the meaning of imports).

OUZSD:
The Chinese economy comes from the Eastern Jin Dynasty ge Hong "embrace puzi" in the "The people of the world", meaning for the governance of the Earth, relief to the population. The Sui Dynasty Wang Tong in the text of "the article neutron" will put forward the word "economy": "All have the way of economy, said by Guizimin". Later generations, the term "economic" as the "Guizimin" ellipsis, as "political domination" and "social management" synonymous. After the coup d ' état in the late Qing Dynasty, the reform of the imperial examination system and the opening of "Economic Special Branch" were followed by the original meaning of "economy".
In the Ming and Qing dynasties, the great change of political order makes the Confucian scholars, such as Wang Fuzhi, gu Yanwu and Huang Lizhou, begin to rethink the theory, criticize Cheng Zhu's Confucianism and the pariahs of heart, and put forward the slogan of "Practical use". This kind of academic thought spread to Japan, influenced the academic of the Edo period in Japan, and "The Theory of the Society" began to be popular among some scholars.

LEEMZ2002:
The "statecraft" in "Puzi" and "Shi Shi Ji" in "The Truth of the book" is not the "economy". The first appearance of the word "economy" should be "Jin book, Yinhao biography."

OUZSD:
But from the late Edo period to the Meiji era, European and American thoughts poured into Japan. [1] Shinping first translated the word "political economy" into English in the book "Economic Primary School" [2], but some people thought it was the first to use such a translation. During this period, Japanese scholars began to use the term "economic" to refer to the various activities brought about by the development of monetary economy, and the reference to "economic means of production, consumption, trade and other activities necessary to maintain social life". This definition, which is related to real problems such as money and property, is becoming popular in Japan, which differs from the original usage of "economy" in the Chinese context of Ming and Qing dynasties. At that time, Japan also had another translation "Zisheng", but it was not universally accepted. Then using the term "economy" to translate the English translation of the "political economy" was introduced into Chinese by Liang Qichao, but also replaced Yan Fu in the "Yuanfu" in the translation of "accounting" or the traditional "livelihood", "leveling", and then gradually replaced the original meaning of the word economy in the whole Chinese cultural circle.

LEEMZ2002:
Most of the Japanese modern translation words are not sporogenous new words, but from the Chinese classical search for the meaning of similar words.
After the traditional Chinese education of the old generation of translators are dead, Japan can not translate such a letter, Tatsu, ya words. Basically, Japan's modern education system cut off the context of Chinese education. Therefore, a generation of new education after the Meiji Restoration can only use katakana to transliteration Western words. Many of the words used in Chinese have gradually been marginalized by katakana words.
The modern usage and classical usage of the word economy is essentially about the rules of interest distribution. For example, "statecraft" has this meaning. "Warp" is the warp of weaving, which is the thing that runs through many parallels. "Management" is to manage the order of society. and "Jimin" is the problem of benefit distribution.
Therefore, the word "economy" is the ancient and modern. But the classical "economy" is the equivalent of today's political economy, a little bit bigger than today's economic category.

Lei Sun:
Know that you know more, kneel Ann.

LEEMZ2002:
Who do you think you are? Let others kneel Ann on their knees.
When Manchukuo was overthrown in 1945, did anyone eat this?

Lei Sun:
In fact, Japanese is still affecting Chinese, although you may personally think that it is not enough "faithfulness", such as "Victory", "the attack" "proud jiao" and so on. Your problem is that you are too fond of pretending to be authoritative, a set of, in fact, all nonsense. (This man is a moron)

Franck Sun:
But the Chinese original "people" and the current meaning is different, modern meaning is from the Japanese in the "people." It is more appropriate to interpret such words with "domestic exports".

LEEMZ2002:
"Domestic exports" refers to the export of goods are not exported (such as the return of the other reasons), and changed to domestic sales.
The words from the Japanese are exported and then imported, just like Da Vinci's furniture. So it's not "domestic exports".
"The People" in the "biographies of the historical records of the Chinese people" and the people of today are different from the political point of view, but they all refer to the collective of natural persons.
After all, the Japanese scholars who translate these words understand Chinese, and it is impossible to find a completely different word for interpreting Western concepts and words.

Serial | Wonderful speeches on the Internet (ii)