I'm not godfather, I want to be a motivator, a promoter, a supporter.

"I do not want to be a giant, the opportunity to become a giant has passed, I hope I can become a better Internet industry to play the people." Zhou 祎 speed as usual.

The old purple sweatshirt was draped in a red T-shirt, lower body but with a pair of trousers, wide round face of his tired to nest on the sofa, occasionally put two feet up on the tea table, think of the problem when with hand fiddling with a group of toilet paper, do not laugh when the eyes sharp cold.

However, whether it is the company's market value, or by the card "security" and to "search the element" and other Internet core areas of expansion and layout, in the outside world, Qihoo 360, the rise of the unusually rapid company, has become a new generation of China's Internet giant signs of one.

But that's what Zhou is most worried about, in his words, "the most frightening thing is the company's rapid expansion." The beauty of a listing in the US appears to him to be a dangerous start-especially in corporate governance and cultural challenges.

So, he and the team of leaders are beating the ranks of thousands of people at all times. As the company moved into the new building this matter, the floor area of about 69,200 square meters, spending more than 400 million yuan headquarters, many of the design and functions reminiscent of Google's headquarters. But after moving, 360 president Xiangdong slightly alert to staff ridicule, Baidu Company's retrogression or weakness, or Baidu company gradually appear decay, the breath of the decline is officially put into use from the Baidu building began.

In this building, Zhou received an interview with this newspaper. In his 2-hour interview, he spoke dialectically about his views on a range of issues, such as leadership, management, crisis and subversion, which he thought of as he pondered the "big company disease" recently.

The dialectic is not Taiji, and his answer is straightforward and outspoken, both in terms of opponents and internal issues. The dialectic is more about his "vigilance", for example, about the challenges of the current 360, and he bluntly "there may be no crisis on the surface, but it seems to me to be a crisis everywhere." "Such reflections abound in this dialogue.

Zhou feels that he is a good leader, but is learning to be a successful manager. "I'm a character who can't be a godfather, and I don't want to do it," he said. I would like to play a role as a motivator, promoter and supporter. ”

So he hopes that the future of subversion of 360, either their own in-house team to do products, or from their own investment companies. This kind of mind, has his most admired entrepreneur-jobs style.

Turn a business into a start-up team

The size of the team should not be too large. To be able to work well, reduce wrangling and communication, and target more clearly

"21st century": You say that the biggest bottleneck of an enterprise's growth is management and culture. When did 360 meet this problem?

Zhou: After the listing. The first is the company listed, no matter how you feel, others will treat you as a big company. Second, the company will consider itself as a big company. The third is that the listing may send a signal to people, is done. After that, the swelling of the people brought about the dilution of culture.

It really is my feeling. When a company gets bigger, it's like a person's weight increased from 50 kg to 150 kg, not only is the body of the meat increased, you may have increased cholesterol, your reaction rate is slow, your heart may not be able to keep up, your knee may not support, your bones also have problems. So I think the most frightening thing is that the company expands rapidly.

The people who come in now will feel that the proportion of people who come to a large company with a professional mentality and a working attitude may be higher. Including we moved the new building, the environment is good, but I also have a worry, is that this environment to the enterprise many new hint, is this is no longer a hard work environment, because the entrepreneurial environment is in the garage, are in the residential.

"21st century": specifically, what is the performance?

Zhou: Let me give you the simplest example, for example, in a start-up company, you are faced with the risk of life and death, and many people make decisions that are very decisive and very simple. At this time you will not be too worried about face, or someone's feelings, you will make the right decision. But the company is big, what decisions you make, may not be related to life and death in the short term, so you will find that you are different from the original.

I made a bad decision today that may hurt the company in the long run, but in making this decision, I can not offend you and take care of your feelings, so many people may make such wrong decisions.

If it is a small company you will be the giant bully, there are many dreams can not be achieved, because our society is still more like to worship large companies, so you want to get more social support, understanding, I hope the company to do a larger scale, but the big will have side effects.

Although IBM President Gerstner once wrote a book, "Who said elephants can not dance," this sentence suddenly looked very reasonable, but in fact you think, the elephant must not do the same action as the flea. That's why a lot of companies are adjusting the architecture.

Tencent, Alibaba, they are tens of thousands of people, they adjust the structure is that they think the past thousands of people's management structure, to tens of thousands of people may not be appropriate, right? or tens of thousands of people of a certain framework after three years, and no use. I am particularly able to understand this adjustment.

"21st century": in your opinion, how does the enterprise solve the crisis caused by the mass change?

Zhou: First of all, you must find a way to keep the enterprise on a reasonable scale. Second, because I have been in the bureaucratic enterprise-yahoo-, I feel sure to turn the enterprise into a team, I am very opposed to engage in the so-called platform of the enterprise or matrix structure. Since we are product-oriented companies, each team is still based on its product, goal-oriented, team size not too big. Spadger, spite, can work well, reduce wrangling and communication, and target more clearly.

Amazon CEO Bezos also joked that their internal measure of small teams is that two pizzas are enough to feed. In large companies, sometimes you unconsciously play the role of a screw, you do a lot of things have no sense of achievement, do not know why. I think a small team can solve this problem.

In fact, I encourage an internal entrepreneurial culture. Do not narrowly define entrepreneurship as being the boss of your own company. In fact, you have a piece of your own sky in the company, there are some reasonable resources, then you bring some people to play your potential, by the company's platform to do things bigger, but also entrepreneurial. There are quite a lot of people, if the company to provide him with a stage, he is able to do very well, but he really went out to start a small company, but it is not good.

Third, the executive is the company's most important team, this team must recognize the entrepreneurial culture of the enterprise, can not rely on me alone with a stick there running around. Many enterprises to do more and more diversification, the founder or leader too many ambitions, and finally not so many suitable people, management culture and can't keep up, must collapse.

To maintain innovation consciousness by stimulating mechanism

There are two things to do in this area: one is spiritual civilization, the other is material civilization

"21st century": You said you would prefer to be an angel investor in the future.

Zhou: Why I pay more attention to investment, but also to my thinking about big company disease.

I think that enterprises should do their own core things, the outside want to do, my proposal is to adopt the way of investment. Because I have done VC, I know very well the investment to the entrepreneur's incentive. The investors also benefited from the success of his support. The best management is not managed. If there is a team that doesn't need you to manage, he can set goals, motivate themselves, drive themselves, which is the best.

I do not think I can do a godfather class entrepreneur, I do not want to do. I would like to play a role as a motivator, promoter and supporter. Don't you think that's what Mr Liu did? He found the right two people, so don't worry, I think this is the best way. Otherwise, even if you are like Zhuge Liang, very clever, is a genius or even a wizard, sleep not a few hours a day, eat also forget, but you can do is limited.

"21st Century": 360 is how to maintain the entrepreneurial awareness of employees?

Zhou: The most important incentive mechanism. There are two things to do in this area: one is spiritual civilization, the other is material civilization. Of course this is my personal opinion.

Spiritual civilization means that you have to give him a goal, make his goals very clear, and then let him do it. It must be a non-material goal, he can feel a sense of achievement, can affect many people, can change the world.

Materially, the rewards of wages and bonuses are very limited. Our more than half of the equity is in the hands of investors, the rest of the basic more than half, nearly 24% of employees, and even the overall proportion of the staff is higher than mine, 360 is certainly the industry to share the highest proportion of the company's employees.

An engineer here for a few years, through his efforts, may earn millions of, even tens of millions, he can afford a house in Beijing. He doesn't have to earn so much as a company, so who doesn't want to work for you?

Frankly, it's not my strong point to play with a variety of management skills, develop complex management rules, and then go into any KPI review. So it's also a headache for me.

"21st century": I saw you in the internal meeting said a very interesting story, you are ready to break the OA server, but also jokingly this is the modern Sima Guang smashed the story of the cylinder. Can you restore the situation?

Zhou: It's not a story. I have always believed that in the company to do management, to pursue the need for management, do not pursue the adequacy of. Management is a means, the company so big, to ensure that there is no error, so there is no management is not, there is no regulation is not. But you can't make the management system extremely perfect and rigorous in order to pursue a complete error. You know, management is cost, management is not saving money, it is spending money, not improving efficiency, it is reducing efficiency, it is to achieve security by reducing efficiency. This is my understanding.

I often tell a story to illustrate my understanding. One day, HP's founder discovered that the company's tools were locked. The door of the original tool room was open at night, there are a lot of raw materials, transistors, integrated circuits and so on, the staff casually take, he opened one eye, because he knew that the staff take back is also doing experiments, or to improve their level, or secretly to do some inventions, to the company is helpful. Then came the new director, that the staff should not take the company's raw materials, the door locked. The founder found a big pliers to cut off the lock and push the door open. Through this, he is conveying a value proposition.

Many companies maintain value proposition and culture because the founders are. A lot of professional managers after the succession, when making decisions, he will think, I to the board of Directors how to explain how to explain to the boss, what other people think of me. The founder is not going to consider so much that the founders only consider whether the matter is good or bad for the business.

Keep a sense of crisis

A truly confident enterprise should constantly find its own problems. So my culture is challenge and self challenge

"21st century": in your opinion, is there any other crisis in 360?

Zhou: I don't think 360 is a crisis now. Just in the absence of crisis, I am talking about a sense of danger every day. A truly confident enterprise should constantly find its own problems. So my culture is challenge and self challenge. Many of our teams have achieved very good results, and may also be hundreds of millions of users, but I said at the annual meeting that we obviously did not do the best, so we have to find ways to pick their own shortcomings.

But on the face of it there may be no crisis, but it seems to me that there are crises everywhere.

These crises are more likely to come not from the plagiarism, imitation and splashing of dirty water from big companies, which can be dealt with, and the real crisis comes from a small company you don't know that is using subversive and innovative weapons against you.

So I said, we face small innovative things must abandon the boss mentality. Boss's mentality is what? The first is invisible, the second is despise, the third is not understand. That year rising, Jinshan look 360 certainly is also this process, the first is to see the huge user needs, the second is to look down on what we do anti-virus software, the third is not to understand that we do free anti-virus. The last step is late, when you see it is late, the market has been taken away by others. So I think this is the real crisis.

One day, 360 will be overturned by others, it must be inevitable. I would like to subvert our own, or a team of internal subversion products, or from a company we invest in products.

"21st century": Are you looking at these small businesses that "can't see, can't see, can't read"?

Zhou: We have an industry research center, which I directly lead. The investment department is also looking at it. But I think this is not enough, so I ask our senior executives, and myself, every month must go out and the outside to start a small team to eat, to mix, to exchange. Then you can learn something new in this industry.

Cock Silk is able to reverse attack, because he is connected to the atmosphere, from the user near, he can know a lot of user needs. But when you make a handsome, you are far away from the user, may not be sensitive.

21st Century: You're a big advocate of jobs, and if you had the chance to face him face-to-face, what would you ask him?

Zhou: Let me think. I certainly have a lot of questions to ask him, but I do think his management model does not come, he is a very unique person, Apple to his core to build a system, this system may be changed other people do not fit. I think jobs has some very special things, and there are some very different things that seem to be easy to learn, but not necessarily useful to learn.

What I really want to ask is how he's going to keep his team in the long term to meet his high demands and challenges.

"21st century": you often say to be subversive, perhaps the next 360 will become the internet giants, you fear to become a giant, become the object of subversion?

Zhou: I do not want to be a giant, the opportunity to become a giant has passed, I hope I can become a better Internet industry to play the people.

I am the most opposed to the Giants, the price of the existence of the Giants have sacrificed the growth of many young generation. Perhaps without me, this industry, to say bad things, will become more blocked, we also admit that. I got up to challenge the Giants and let the Giants change, which may also be a sense of achievement for me.

I can do stay foolish

I also have a lot of advantages, such as I can admit that I do not understand, I do not understand. The more pressure, the more calm and rational

"21st century": What do you think your strengths and weaknesses are?

Zhou: In fact, I have quite a lot of shortcomings and advantages, because I am a more prominent temperament people.

My weakness, the first sometimes does not disguise and packaging themselves, so speak too bluntly, of course, Frank has the advantages of straightforward, but sometimes also offend some people, or hurt some people. The second is that the temper is more urgent, so sometimes it is too impatient to make some decisions, of course, this is slowly improving.

Another problem is that I am more emotional, sometimes in a mood, may be half a day to pull out. I'll be frustrated, too. On the battlefield, the successful warriors are not not afraid, they also have fear, but the most important thing is that he can control his fear. But a lot of entrepreneurs just show you the bright side, he won't let you see his bad side. Some people say that I play CS very well, but when playing CS, if suddenly there are enemies behind, I will flee in panic, this is instinct. This is not to say that I am a timid person.

But I also have a lot of advantages, such as I can be very calm to analyze my own mistakes. The second one, I think I can actually do stay foolish, which means I can confess I don't understand, I don't understand. The third one is stubborn. There is another, the more difficult, the more pressure, I will be more calm and rational.

"21st century": What qualities do you think a successful entrepreneur needs to have? Did you succeed?

Zhou: I don't think I've succeeded, or in a way, I think I've succeeded, because my criteria for success are different. My success criterion is that the products I have made have changed the world and changed the lives of many people.

I do a good job of free security, my browser is also similar to do, but I saw the micro-letter, and I feel inferior to many, so I feel unsuccessful.

"21st century": You really do not have to micro-letter?

Zhou: I don't need a micro-letter. I think the success of micro-letter is too many accidental and inevitable, after all, Tencent has this DNA, and Tencent is very lucky, met with Zhangxiaolong such entrepreneurial feeling.

Indeed, the success of micro-trust has given us great pressure, and we are also thinking about how the future of mobile internet can do a new thing. Looking back, subversion of Weibo is not a second microblog, but a micro-letter. Then the subversion of the micro-letter is not the second micro-letter, may be another do not know what is more fun things. I think 360 to do search, do search or have the opportunity, and in the wireless domain search, there is a greater chance.

Managers have no talent.

2013 before the Spring Festival, Zhou led a team of it men on the Hunan TV "Day Up" program, introduced the development of Qihoo 360 history and the main products, even with the public mobile phone number of the way to show 360 of the telephone interception function, attracted a lot of eyeballs.

As the chairman of Qihoo 360 Technology Co., Ltd. is also one of the most controversial figures in China's internet industry, Zhou is always on the cusp.

In the description of most media, the Hubei people smart and aggressive, around the war, with Ma Yun, Horse, Lei and other people, because last August launched a search engine, his latest rival is Baidu's Robin Li. Zhou's battlefield was so sensational that at the end of last month a picture of him and Lei talking on the elevator caused the internet to vibrate. Even, a netizen for six months ago also incompatible Zhou Lei two people to fabricate dialogue. But Zhou don't feel a big deal, he never hold grudges, also won't deliberately avoid who.

Zhou created 3721 in the early years, opened the Chinese Internet Service, and in 2003, 3721 was bought by Yahoo. $120 million, Zhou as president of Yahoo China area. 2006, Zhou 祎 investment Qihoo 360 Company, launched 360 security guards, the first to sacrifice the banner of "Rogue Software", two years also launched a truly permanent free anti-virus software in the world, then Qihoo 360 in China's internet industry rapid rise. After that, the 360 browser homeopathy, a line on the pressure over the Sogou and roaming, become a local browser leader. March 30, 2011, Qihoo 360 successfully listed in the United States NYSE, now nearly 3.7 billion U.S. dollars in market capitalisation, so that the company ranked among the top five of China's internet-listed companies, the market value of the equivalent of two Sohu.

Although, all the way to promote "subversive innovation" Zhou 祎 habit to "cock silk" self-proclaimed, also always opposed to become a giant, but after two years of listing, has more than 3,500 employees of Qihoo 360, also had to start facing "big company disease" related thinking.

"Many of us have turned to the surface according to the company's so-called system and discipline in following the company's management process, in fact, in the absence of an excuse for their own results, so our company appeared, signed a thing can be signed for several months, a lot of things for several months did not result, and then tell me this thing is in the OA system. At first I suddenly heard that the OA system is a magical thing, the day I put Tanxiaosheng (360 CTO) called over, quickly tell me where the OA server, I am ready to smash it. Zhou 祎 a half ridicule to warn staff.

Later, he wrote on Weibo: Sima Guang smashed the cylinder, others see is wit, I think it is more courage. If the cylinder is the management system of the enterprise, and save the people is you want to achieve the goal, you dare not to break this cylinder? No management system, enterprises do not play. But any management system is not a rigid tiantiao, it is for the enterprise to achieve business objectives service. If you don't get the results because of the process and the system, it's time to smash the cylinders.

In the Zhou of the product manager, the genius is only in the technical level, but not in the management field, he is a good leader, but not a good manager.

He has said that the company over 1000 people, let him do management will be very headache. In recent years, most of his 100-year recommendations are in the management category. For example, his most recent book to senior executives included "five functional barriers to the team" and "CEO's four Great myths".