Li Xiaoyun: To adjust China's poverty reduction strategy in the next ten years

--the abolition of 592 state-level impoverished counties and direct targeting of poor people through poor counties to allocate resources, has become the local and central in the allocation of funds in the game system conditions and causes corruption of the system. The legal diversion, leakage and loss of poverty alleviation funds are very large. How to give the decision-making power, management power and use right of resources to the poor?　　This is a major reform to be done in the next 10 years. Respondents: Li Xiaoyun (Dean, College of Humanities and Development, China Agricultural University) economic growth can also lead to massive poverty reduction Southern Weekend: China has experienced the largest poverty reduction in the world over the past 30 years.　　The 2010-2020 poverty reduction strategy is about to be developed, what previous experience remains valid? Li Xiaoyun: For more than 30 years, the poor have fallen sharply, and economic growth is the most important reason. Overall, China's economy is conducive to the growth of the poor. Agrarian reform has led to the development of agriculture, the problem of eating food is basically eliminated; while agricultural employment increased, agricultural productivity increased and farmers ' income increased; after the reform and opening up of capital accumulation, the economic structure gradually from capital-intensive heavy industry to labor intensive light industry adjustment.　　Thus, the large development of small and medium-sized enterprises, especially township enterprises, led to the transfer of rural labor force, which made the income per capita in rural areas increased. The rapid decline of the poor before the 1990 was associated with this very positive process.　　Every Chinese has benefited from this period of growth. Southern Weekend: June 19, CPPCC member Mr. Cai mentioned a "authoritative department" report that 0.4% of China's people are in possession of 70% of the wealth.　　As wealth grows more concentrated, the pro-poor effects of economic growth seem to be rapidly fading. Li Xiaoyun: There is a judgment that the drip effect of economic growth is falling. I don't entirely agree. Indeed, the increase in income flows to the affluent, which is reflected in the much higher labour productivity of the urban population than in the countryside. But China is too big, and the situation in different regions is not the same. The Pearl River Delta, the Yangtze River Delta, along the Bohai Sea and other developed areas and the Midwest are different.　　A considerable number of central regions, particularly in the West, have a potential to drive down the poverty population through economic growth. Southern Weekend: There are also a large number of poor people left behind in the economic growth of the chariot.　　The targeted poverty alleviation arrangements seem increasingly important. Li Xiaoyun: poverty reduction in the last 30 years is basically a ten-year period. The first is economic growth as the main body of poverty reduction, followed by the economic growth and the planned, targeted development of the combination of poverty, phase III and social development, the protection of some people to reduce poverty, such as the minimum, free education and other support. At present, the central government's transfer payments, the proportion of the poor's income is very large.　　In terms of poverty reduction, it was initially a solution to food poverty, followed by the settlement of income poverty, and now the alleviation of multiple poverty, such as the village infrastructure, health conditions, education, etc. The historical mission of impoverished counties completed the Southern Weekend: by identifying poverty-alleviation resources in impoverished counties, it is the main support for backward areas after 1986 years., the impoverished counties increased from 331 to 592 in 1994.　　Will the future continue to allocate pro-poor resources in this way? Li Xiaoyun: Poverty alleviation has several core problems: one is aiming at the area, the other is aiming at the group, the third is aiming at the policy. From the regional point of view, we have probably experienced from a large area, regional targeting, to county-level targeting and village-level targeting three ways. With the difference of regional development in China, the establishment of "impoverished counties" has two needs, first, the poverty at that time presented the geographical characteristics of the film, a considerable number of counties from the overall lag behind the other counties, the county is the government's administrative plan of the lowest level unit, the county as a unit in favor of government policy and project planning and Management, Therefore, the actual significance of the county as a unit, with the county as the unit of the aim and implementation of the poverty alleviation work played a positive role.　　But after nearly 30 years of development, targeting and allocating poverty alleviation funds through impoverished counties has lost its significance. First, poor people in impoverished counties are not necessarily the most. More than half of the impoverished population is no longer concentrated in poor counties. After 30 years of poverty reduction, the distribution of the poor is characterized by "small concentration and large dispersion". They are only in a very small area, probably concentrated in some counties, but are no longer concentrated in 592 counties, with poor people in poor areas, in the central region, and in developed areas. Although many impoverished counties are still very backward, but a considerable number of impoverished counties are not only no longer poor, but some have become a new model of county economic development, which is mainly in the western region of the resource industry is more obvious.　　In this case, it would be unfair to allocate limited poverty-reducing funds to counties that are not poor. At the same time, the way of impoverished counties, has become the local and central in the allocation of funds game system conditions and causes the corruption of the system. Even in terms of poverty alleviation, a considerable number of 148,000 poor villages are not distributed in impoverished counties. So the historical mission of impoverished counties has been completed.　　Now the target mechanism of resources, put forward higher requirements.　　Southern Weekend: Is it more effective to target the poor by identifying 148,000 poor villages? Li Xiaoyun: The concept of the poor village is both operational and reflects the objective reality of the poor people's relative concentration in the poor village, so the village-level targeting mechanism has been adopted in the past decade. This is mainly due to the small range of a village, who is poor people know, very good supervision of the needy is not supported.　　The whole village has been a systematic exploration for the direct targeting of the poor. But in practice, it is found that the distribution of the poor population is not mainly in the poor village, but in the form of a special economic geographical distribution. such as the flaky or banded distribution of natural disasters, the Wenchuan earthquake created a new poverty belt.　　This type of poverty is also very serious in non-impoverished villages, so it is important to establish a targeting mechanism with poor households as a unit. Suggest different areas to establish different poverty standards Southern Weekend: The State Department's poverty Alleviation office is said to be drafting new standards to raise the poverty line of $1067 per capita income to 1300 yuan. What is the standard of living in China at the present stage of development?Poor people? Li Xiaoyun: I didn't hear to mention 1300 yuan. The poverty line is the minimum income standard for subsistence and for meeting the expenses of clothing and residence. According to purchasing power, in the World Bank's latest sample of 75 countries, our poverty line is incredibly low! This leads to the inclusion of the poor and the poor. The World Bank estimates that there are 254 million poor people in our countryside, and our statistics are only 15 million, which is too big a gap.　　But if the poverty line is raised sharply, the poor will be too much, and the people will ask why the poor have more than more than 20 years of poverty alleviation, and the government is not good enough to explain. Southern Weekend: There are huge differences across China, can we use a poverty line as a uniform standard?　　Will there be a bias? Li Xiaoyun: The income poverty line is problematic. People in some places earn less than 1000 per cent of the poverty line, but may not be poor. Because the local infrastructure is very good, education, medical care and so do not have money.　　People with incomes above the poverty line, because of their lack of social security, may be living in poverty. To improve the targeting mechanism, consideration should be given to the welfare level and the poverty line. The consumer income poverty line is now used: 70% for food and 30% for other expenses. In many countries, the poverty line is defined by 10% per 50% of the minimum income group, or bounded by the average income. Their social welfare is the same, most people go to school, the hospital is the same, and China's social welfare is very inconsistent.　　Therefore, it is proposed to adopt a decentralized poverty reduction standard, that is, different regions to establish different standards.　　The government should give decision-making power to the poor in the South Weekend: If the poverty unit is sunk to the village level, the income poverty line and other methods are difficult to accurately determine the poor, how to improve the targeting mechanism? Li Xiaoyun: The poor can be identified by the income-consumption poverty line, but the costs are too high to monitor each farmer's income and expenditure every year. Over the past decade, the impoverished cadres and masses have created rich experience in identifying the poor, and in Sichuan, Yunnan, Gansu, Guangxi, Jiangxi and other poverty alleviation departments, to use participatory identification, the power to identify the poor people to the grassroots.　　Let the people of the same village identify the poor by the local standards they think they are.　　It is not difficult to identify the poor at the village level, and the core question is how the government's financial support plan is combined with the empowering participatory approach to work. Southern Weekend: Many places are willing to fight for funds but do not pay attention to the use of supervision, financial pro-poor funds easily deviate from the target group, data show that about 80% of the discount loans to the non-poor people.　　How can this problem be solved? Li Xiaoyun: The resources are firmly in the hands of the government and the transaction costs are too high. Although the Treasury is reforming and sending resources to the county, the trouble is greater as long as funds are in the hands of officials. Over the years, the real corruption and poverty alleviation of relatively small funds, but the operation of large systems, legal misappropriation, leakage, loss is very large. How to give the decision-making power, management power and use right of resources to the poor?　　This is a major reform to be done in the next 10 years. Village-level planning raises the proportion of funds to the village, but the proportion of the real to the poor is not high. How to reach households is a problem that has been criticized by the poor and has not been solved. Poverty alleviation is not a large-scale economic development, but a support plan aimed at the poor. The ability to develop the poor, but the government is the main bad.　　This is 30 years of experience.　　Southern Weekend: What is the specific way to put power into the hands of the poor? Li Xiaoyun: Farmers can organize their own planning under the leadership of the village committee. Money can be managed by farmers themselves.　　The Ministry of Finance and the Poverty alleviation Office of the State Council are doing village-level development fund pilot, changing the financial use of the past, the funds to the village, the farmers themselves to carry out funds management, the use of funds monitoring.　　Has accumulated very rich experience in decentralization, the next central government can promote this way of poverty alleviation.　　Southern Weekend: Many local villagers do not trust the Village committee, grassroots Political Ecology needs radical change? Li Xiaoyun: Not exactly. After all, the village committee is elected by the villagers themselves, but only the end of the government, there is no fiscal tax, there is no transfer of the management capacity to pay, reduce the villagers election and supervision of the Village committee's interest. If a community development fund is established, the government returns the money that should be given to farmers to the village committee. The villagers are naturally interested in having the money and who gets it. Then to promote the supervision of village committees to establish organizations, management funds use. This pilot has been many, the State Council poverty alleviation Office is now doing with the community-driven model and the Community Development Fund model, namely village-level development fund. Microfinance: It's not the poor. Southern Weekend: There is another source of finance for poverty alleviation.　　In the 1990 's China began to do microfinance, now seems to be at a low ebb, how to see the effect of credit poverty alleviation? Li Xiaoyun: Poor people are generally unable to afford large-scale loans. But the smaller the scale of credit, the higher the cost of services, the less likely banks are to do so, the real poor will have difficulty getting credit support. The control of the financial loan quota will cause the shortage of capital supply in the poor area, and the credit fault occurs.　　Microcredit came into being. Microcredit targeting is high, targeting the poor, especially women.　　Participatory poverty alleviation and microfinance are two major innovations in poverty alleviation in ten years.　　Southern Weekend: Also a large part of the money out of the loan and not back? Li Xiaoyun: The China Foundation for Poverty Alleviation, the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences and the local microfinance in Sichuan and Yunnan are all very high repayment rates. We support microfinance in Ningxia Salt Lake, where the repayment rate has been over 95% over the past 10 years. The low repayment rate is not microcredit. The credibility of the poor is very high, they have only the credibility of this thing, than we also cherish it, otherwise there is no way to survive. Neither the poor nor the rich have the right to pay. This flaw, but also the next decade's poverty reduction strategy to be overcome.